Going to review


#1

Hi Folks

here is a new synthesis method with a fibonacci delay line it is a DEMO of a new set of tools including modal synthesis a la intellijel Plonk for physical models NOT based on STK which for many years was the lingua franca of physical modeling for several major data flow programming languages

To evaluate this synthesis you will need to install a library which will give you required libs that will be needed in the new suite of patches i have been working on that will include:

bouncing~ breaking~ bubble~ crumpling~ dcmotor~ demix~ envelope~
explosion~ fluidflow~ friction~ impact~ inertial modal
motor~ myo~ pitch~ pitchshift~ reverb~ rolling~
scraping~ spectralfeats~ windcavity~ windflow~ windkarman~ zerox~ munger~
cooled~ and several maxugens by Luke Dubois

Until these are included in any major releases you have to install them yourself.

place this file in your old fashioned /Patches folder and run it:

then you can run this DEMO of fluidflow that has a fun Fibonacci based delay line


#2

Can’t wait to check this out! :smiley:


#3

just be careful with the fibonacci delay it can easily feedback but when you tweak it it sounds pretty nice [imho]


#4

why are you calling it BLOOP, and not SDT (sound design toolkit) ? (which is what it it)
its GPLv2, so there are certain conditions for using it.

Sound Design Toolkit - http://www.soundobject.org/SDT/
Source Code: https://github.com/SkAT-VG/SDT

perhaps you think it unimportant, but personally as an open source developer, I think its great that these kind of projects are generous enough to give away their work…and its important to credit and acknowledge them.


#5

cool, checking it out.

can’t any needed lib be placed in the patch folder instead of manually installing stuff in /usr/lib. Or what happened to the idea putting extra stuff in the central ‘extra libs’ folder ?

and yes to what @thetechnobear says. Generally all patches should include a license file, and especially those that include work from other open source projects.


#6

The SDT prints all the info to the window, Bloop is/just a silly name i made for testing to see if it works on other’s computers
i assume you read the links from the pd window yes? that’s where the license info prints, perhaps we can have that print to the OLED that would be fun
lets see how this one works and the patches that are being created will include the compiled libraries

@thetechnobear --no i do not think it’s unimportant, and personally I’m a researcher who will be extending Mr Rochesso’s & Mr Bernadinis work and the code they have worked on so others may use it inside the organelle.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx616uzm6lkzlin/SObBook_JUL03.pdf?dl=0 is the book as well. So yes, it’s important to acknowledge them and i shall be @ TEDx including you, oweno and the Critter team as well as Prnciskus & Giedrius @ Blokas

@oweno Because of the way it’s compiled the .so MUST be in /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib and then the compiled externals sit in the folder for this example fluidflow i’ve tried on several different machines and this seems to work the best

@thetechnobear – just so you know i’ve been doing this a while and i try to directly contact the developer before i even begin something like this so i don’t get into problems. The patches that i am going to build take the SDT libs to the next level of usability. This October i will be traveling to Verona to meet Davide and Matthew and Andrea Valle who are holding a conference and will demo the extension for them there. And during research i don’t publish my bibliography BEFORE i present. thanks for understanding that personally as a researcher at a university i am provide explicit links in my papers, research proposals and to funding sources regarding the research i am using.


#7

I’ll definitely include the license file/s etc… when i can confirm it works. basically if it was not working or ONLY worked on my machine(s) i need others to test that. This is really only for testing.

I will code a patch that prints license info to the window too. I tried to do that with all the LADSPA creators there were a ton of them and whiel MANY come from Steve Harris other ones came from CDP etc…

So i want to be clear my research and my focus is/has been on the maintenance and revival of this code for users and the developers i have contacted for example Kelly Fitz who created loris – a spectral morphing library that used csound has granted me access to maintining his code FOR the csound community. Now what does that mean? It means WORK. It means hiring grad students or assigning grad students to re-concile the code with csound, the current python and the code that Kelly Has released. So i MAKE SURE that IF i am going to spend MY RESEARCH DOLLARS on something that they know about it not for hurt boo-boo feelings or trying to claim their work as my own. I have been participating in open source development since the mid 1990s-- for example the Gendy~ work recently and just a few weeks ago with Olivier Belanger and Cecilia but to give you an idea this is what Dr. Fitz had to say about HIS code and my intentions

dr.kelly.fitz@gmail.com
on behalf of
Kelly Fitz kfitz@cerlsoundgroup.org
Wed 1/10, 1:24 AM
Pagano, Patrick
Inbox
Hi Patrick, thanks for contacting me, and for your interest in Loris.

I have been out of academia for almost a dozen years, and in that time, I have not used Csound at all. The decision to stop supporting Csound, to the extent that there was a decision at all, simply came down to there being no one in the Csound community willing and available to maintain the modules. The API was forever changing, and at some point long ago the modules I had worked on stopped working. Loris is no longer related in any way (unfortunately) to my day job, so I have almost no time to develop or support it any longer. I would be glad to see someone familiar with (and willing to keep up with) the Csound API update the Loris modules, but I cannot offer much assistance, nor give a credible estimate of the effort that would be involved to bring them up to date. You can, of course, clone the repository and inspect the module code yourself, but I have no bandwidth (and of course, no students) to dedicate to the effort.

Thanks for your interest, and best wishes,
Kelly


#8

this is what prints to the pd window

GEM: Graphics Environment for Multimedia
GEM: ver: 0.93.3
GEM: compiled: Nov 10 2011
GEM: maintained by IOhannes m zmoelnig
GEM: Authors : Mark Danks (original version)
GEM: Chris Clepper
GEM: Cyrille Henry
GEM: IOhannes m zmoelnig
GEM: with help by Guenter Geiger, Daniel Heckenberg, James Tittle, Hans-Christoph Steiner, et al.
GEM: found a bug? miss a feature? please report it:
GEM: homepage http://gem.iem.at/
GEM: bug-tracker http://sourceforge.net/projects/pd-gem/
GEM: mailing-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/gem-dev/
GEM: compiled for SIMD architecture: SSE2 MMX
GEM: using SSE2 optimization

♡♡♡
♡ the zexy external  2.2.6svn
♡ (c) 1999-2012 IOhannes m zmölnig
♡       forum::für::umläute
♡       iem   @  kug
♡  compiled:  May 29 2015
♡ send me a 'help' message
♡♡♡

matchbox: OSC-pattern matching code © Matt Wright, CNMAT
pure: can’t load library
timbreID version 0.7.0

iemmatrix 0.2
objects for manipulating 2d-matrices
© 2001-2015 iem
IOhannes m zmölnig
Thomas Musil
Franz Zotter
compiled May 29 2015 : 22:43:44

pdlua 0.7.1 (GPL) 2012 Martin Peach, based on
lua 0.6~svn (GPL) 2008 Claude Heiland-Allen claudiusmaximus@goto10.org
pdlua: compiled for pd-0.43 on Jan 24 2013 03:26:14
=== SDT - Sound Design Toolkit ===
Version 077, © 2001 - 2016
Project SOb - http://soundobject.org
Project CLOSED - http://closed.ircam.fr
Project NIW - http://soundobject.org/niw
Project SkAT-VG - http://skatvg.eu

Included externals:
bouncing~ breaking~ bubble~ crumpling~ dcmotor~ demix~ envelope~
explosion~ fluidflow~ friction~ impact~ inertial modal
motor~ myo~ pitch~ pitchshift~ reverb~ rolling~
scraping~ spectralfeats~ windcavity~ windflow~ windkarman~ zerox~
=== SDT - Sound Design Toolkit ===
Version 077, © 2001 - 2016
Project SOb - http://soundobject.org
Project CLOSED - http://closed.ircam.fr
Project NIW - http://soundobject.org/niw
Project SkAT-VG - http://skatvg.eu

Included externals:
bouncing~ breaking~ bubble~ crumpling~ dcmotor~ demix~ envelope~
explosion~ fluidflow~ friction~ impact~ inertial modal
motor~ myo~ pitch~ pitchshift~ reverb~ rolling~
scraping~ spectralfeats~ windcavity~ windflow~ windkarman~ zerox~


#9

So yes, the copyright has expired. if i read that correctly but i will alert Davide when i speak with him next

pp


#10

my point was simply credit/acknowledge … in the spirit of open source.

I accept that for many patches listing every license, for every lib, external would get onerous, so perhaps even its not exactly correctly, but just mentioning the pieces which for an important part of the patch is perhaps the middle ground… with references to the original source and project web site.

and please, lets stop the ‘authority argument’ - " I am … , I know… " (sorry dont know the academic term for this argument) - its perfectly cool, thatit didn’t occur or whatever , just accept the point, correct it, and move on.


#11

the spirit of open source would have been “hey i made you an installer for it so you we can use these cool patches on the organelle”

or as i shared perhaps “lets find a way to mirror the pd window so we don’t have to worry about not crediting folks who have moved on in some cases 10+ years ago. and like you said " listing every license, for every lib, external would get onerous” and not revealing my bibliography/research when i am scheduled to publish is important to me.

If you do not care to acknowledge my research and the work that goes /has gone into preserving this code, communicating with the developers, research stipends, communications with administration and resulting travel, budgets and funding allotments, that’s fine but as i have asked for privately i am requesting a more collegial exchange. i don’t need linux lessons nor research best practices hints.


#12

yeah, there will always be a bit of a grey area when it comes to doing this properly, as patches are often a collection of interpreted (Pd) files, compiled binary files, and media files created by one or many persons… when we first started making patches we struggled with how to deal properly with licensing and attribution. In the end we took some inspiration from the license included in the rjdj pd library, found here. the idea is to loosely list authors and contributors, followed by actual license text when/if needed. but we always thought it was important to do something, in the end the worst license is none at all…

but beyond all the legal stuff is also the idea that patches should be designed to engage programmers just as they engage musicians (and many of us would say these activities are one in the same). simple documentation including links and credits to the work on which the patch is based goes a long way to draw folks in, opening them up to techniques and ideas they might not have known about. @shreeswifty you are obviously versed in the history of some of this code, and I think it would be beneficial for others to share some of this in the patch (like a credits file or readme file or whatever), both in the giving credit sense, but also the educational sense.


#13

i totally agree, and if you go through the patches i actually release i always try to give a background of where it comes from and better still the compiled externals that makes the patches work for example i just looked at the first “readme” for this project i found
T
o run the example patches, you must use pd version 0.33 or later.
---------------
note** i laughed when i saw 0.33 that is ancient days pd -wise.

Modules are protected from unhealthy parameter settings, e.g. negative masses or elasticities or range overflows; for extreme values, instabilities can though still occur. In such cases, modules have to be recreated, e.g. by closing and reloading the patch. No precausions whatsoever are taken to prevent clipping or other nasty sound events; be aware that careless settings can hurt your speakers/ears (as can real impact events …).
Finally, have fun with the plugins. For questions, comments, suggestions don’t hesitate to contact rath@sci.univr.it; examples of realized sounds of whatever (e.g. musical) use are particularly welcome.

Verona, june,27th, Matthias Rath

ANd from that i contacted Matthias [Matthew Rath] i was told he had not looked at that code “in years” so i contacted a colleague in Italy Andrea Valle who knows Rochesso and Stefano Papetti. Papetti is more interested in Max and there is a much more developed set of tools for Max, but of course my interest is in Pure Data. And time and time again many of them included the pd code for legacy or open source concerns and ANYTHING done with them is applauded. But the point is actually to do something with them first. Make them work and use them in something besides the release THEN you actually have something to talk about. That is the research. There is also the ability to ASK ME questions, that might reveal a universe of code that programmers might want to explore or need but i am not doing research for an invisible party of individuals> i am making stuff with code for this device and people that use it. If you are a programmer the window prints everything to the window and maybe i just assumed if you are making patches that’s just a given. I contacted Davide about the copyright expiration hence my “under review” and i will wait to hear what he says before we proceed. I don’t want to get anyone in trouble but i also have research that i am doing that is parallel to this wonderful little blue box and what i am asking for/have asked for is a little more collegiality, that’s all.


#14

Good point. Sorry but slightly off topic, as someone new to this I’d like some further guidance on what to include in a patch. Any tips?