Nori Sampler > smaller buffer


#1

Hi everyone,

I use the Nori Sampler and I would like to get a shorter buffer, a “grain” smaller than what is offered. I tried to change the variables of the object “pd-loop-start-end” but I do not get the right result. The idea is just to be able to get very short segments, so start to hear a note (like on the phonogene of Make Noise for ex).

Can anyone illuminate my lantern? Thank you in advance.


#2

No idea ? No one ? Up !:nerd_face:


#3

I think so many of the C&G patches are really great yet i think they are starting points to show users what is possible with the organelle. I can customize you a patch but I will say this that very rarely what the user thinks is just a simple tweak is what is needed to modify those very explicit C&g patches --they are very good and the are meticulously created so while you may “just shorten a grain” other things like the attack and decay and the variable line and there are 6 sampler voices in each patch etc… all have to be modified. I am not trying to shoot down your idea I am saying what you want to do is very much possible but it is not simple (unless Oweno or someone chooses to modify it for you) or if you spend a few days getting comfy with pd and use nori as a primer to learn about sampling. You can pm me if you like but those patches are made a certain way for a certain effect and they are quite intricate to a new user


#4

Thank you Patrick for your reply.

The patches of Critter & Guattari are absolutely fabulous, of course, but they do not escape the rule of a patch which, by definition, invites a user to customize it, go further, etc. This is the purpose of a modular software like Pure Data, right?

I am not an expert but I use and I create my own patches on Pure Data for some years. I do not think the modification I am talking about is very complex: the minimum duration parameter is 0.1 sec and I would simply like to decrease it to 0.01 sec. That’s all.

Years before the Organelle, I developed an equivalent patch Sampler Nori but I was not able to handle “clicks” sound in the loop, what Nori Sampler manages perfectly. I have already begun to modify it, reducing the “duration” but not enough: when I reduce it too much, something seems to be ignored. There is a relationship between the duration and the hanning window that I do not understand.

If this request was too complex to modify, I would like to understand why, and to progress at the same time.

Thank you.

PS: you said “there are 6 sampler voices in each patch etc… all have to be modified” but the {samplervoice} is an abstraction so it is enough to change a single one so that the six are modified. Also, I’m talking about the Nori Sampler Mono.


#5

Hi yes the famous sampler-voice as I refer to it now, I am on my phone so I could not be as explicit as I would have liked and a few ideas got munged. I think it’s great you have a pd background so you are at an advantage but still you have not fixed it properly? I’m not trying to be combative but just illustrating that these are unique and while yes you can edit anything of course but my main point I guess is that sometimes it better to plant your own apple tree rather than waiting for apples to fall into your yard from an over hanging branch. If all you really want to do is shorten the sample time that should be very easy but like I said then the attack/release equation may sound wonky stuff like that. And let me be clear that by now I am not soliciting mods or customizations as I have plenty of commissions and remuneration for doing what I love. So if you still need a hand after giving it your full attentions let me know


#6

I think you are on the right track, you want to edit the numbers in pd-loop-start-end (and you are right this is in the [samplervoice] abstraction so you only have to make this change once)…

The Nori Sampler was initially developed to allow for long sample recording, so it contains lots of extra complexity (look inside [pd varispeed] to see what I mean). It uses a hack (or technique) for playing back the buffer without introducing artifacts that you might otherwise here using the long buffer. And the loop point minimum (coded at .1 sec) has something to do with this, but I honestly can’t remember what! There are few numbers to change in [pd loop-start-end], did anything happend when you changed them? coming out of [pd loop-start-end] are a couple number boxes, you could also try just typing some values in there, they are the start end points in samples, so .01 seconds would be .01 * 44100 = 441.

Looking inside [pd varispeed] there is also a metro that is taking a snapshot of the playback phasor and using this to offset the position in the playback buffer. The metro is set at 20 ms and I think this has to be smaller than the minimum loop length . You could try setting the metro to 5 ms or 2 ms and then reducing loop length to .01 sec and see if it works…

but also, if you don’t need the long buffer, it might be easier editing a more strait forward sample playback patch to make it do what you want. Basic Sampler or Sampler Style Delay don’t have looping, but it might be easier to add looping into them instead of bothering with the Nori patch…


#7

Hi Oweno,

Thank you for your reply!
You are right, it was necessary to act on the {metro} of the brick {varispeed} and reduce it to 5ms or less. Otherwise, the loop would go off and the sample would be played until the end.

For the {pd-loops-start-end} brick, I simply changed the variables from 4410 to 441 and set the value for the fade out to 44. to obtain the result I needed.

However, I will follow your advice and also change the Basic Sampler in this idea, and then in general, get a bit familiar with hanning windows.:roll_eyes:

Thank you both. :love_you_gesture:


#8

cool, glad you got it working!

you should also check out the Jeraphy patch (https://www.critterandguitari.com/pages/organelle-patches)

The [sample-voice] in this patch is a looper using a phasor~ for playback (and a crown window for eliminating clicks on the loop point). The phasor~ approach is a little more natural for looping, where using a line~ is better for single shot.


#9

A crown window is really what I need.
I’ll take a look at this Jeraphy Patch.

Thanks.