Orac 2.0

[Vasco]

I noticed a slight issue with the panning of chains and ‘post’ fx.

When you have the input signal on A1 panned hard left and on B1 hard right, if you apply an fx on the ‘post’ slot, most fx’s will sum the material (in the ‘centre’) or omit one of them. In this case, the incoming signal panned hard right goes mute. Perhaps this is to do with the fact the fx modules aren’t full stereo?

It’s works fine anyway if you bring both signals to the centre, but just sharing, since the whole system is now L/R assignable would be cool to keep it true stereo (or dual mono) all across.

Plus orac 2.0 sounds better to me, sounds crisper. Not sure what it is but feels like there’s less ‘hum/digital hiss’ coming out it all (am I dreaming? ;–). Top stuff!

[thetechnobear]

@HarmonyUnited

Re push 2: Yes, the pads are lighting up as a scale and the organelle is accepting notes and spitting out audio from the synth. I still cannot get the screen to display information. I tried from a fresh restart first opening Orac, then turning on push 2, then running mec with the push2kontrol.json. Am i missing something like I was with the OSC method?

no, should just work…
I need to check the udev rules are being installed correctly - if not, i’ll try to sort it out in beta 2

@Vasco

Actually this makes me wonder (so I don’t make the same mistake again) if you can assign two modulators to two different modules within the same chain? And once the modulators are ‘running’ you can change their settings but not the ones on the modules being modulated by, right?

the modulators have no relation to the chains…so you use wherever

beta 2 fixes ‘unlearning’ of modulators.

@Vasco

When you have the input signal on A1 panned hard left and on B1 hard right, if you apply an fx on the ‘post’ slot, most fx’s will sum the material (in the ‘centre’) or omit one of them. In this case, the incoming signal panned hard right goes mute. Perhaps this is to do with the fact the fx modules aren’t full stereo?

i’d need more details… as im not quite sure what you mean.
so we are talking p2?
which fx? some fx, don’t really treat things as stereo at all - e.g. wrps, uses l/r for different purposes - this is actually pretty useful.

[thetechnobear]

ok, beta 2 is up for both MEC and Orac 2.0

also a new getting started video
PLEASE watch this if you having issues setting up midi etc!

[HarmonyUnited]

@technobear still no dice on the push 2 working like in your videos. I guess I’ll wait til beta 2. Keep up the amazing work man, it’s inspiring.

Best, E

[thetechnobear]

k, Beta 2 is out - but I don’t think it’ll make a difference.(*)

Ive tried on both organelles I have here,
one running a beta 1 version of mec/orac, and one running the beta 2 version of mec/orac,
and both work fine

I tried various things like having the P2 plugged in at boot time, or plugging later, running orac before mec (the best option), running mec first the orac - and didn’t make any difference.

did it about 10-20 times and worked fine, except once (see below)

so the procedure is so simple
start orac
start MEC - with pushkontrol.json
pads light up, then 5-10 seconds later - screen will show modules etc.

(make sure you have the latest MEC and Orac obviously)

ok, I had it once, not where it didn’t work the first time after booting …

now Ive seen this before, and when this happens, its seems to be a low level hardware kind of fault, basically, the underlying kernel, doesn’t seem to properly initialise it. to fix Ive found i either need to
a) MEC -> stop , MEC pushkontrol.json
(this fixed it this time)
b) reboot organelle…
(since I see the hardware failing every time - only seen this once before)
AND… im not 100% sure this is true of the ‘proper’ Organelle, as Ive only ever seen this on my ‘supercharged’ dev Organelle, so Im not sure its not due to that. the said, this is the one I use the most, so it maybe thats the reason i see it there.

so Im not quite sure what you are doing different
what I can say is, my setup
I run on 2 different organelles, I always use mains power on both Organelle and Push 2 (when using push) , I rarely use a USB hub (but i tried with one and it worked, but Id recommend without for testing),
tests I did above were without wifi (but I also use wifi)
I use the USB cables that came with the Push2, as its a high quality cable - which is important.
I always run off the SD card
Push2 has latest firmware on it (installed by Live, at some point)

none of these really should make any difference, and as you’ve seen from my videos, Ive been using the same MEC software for ages now with the Push2 - the basic USB level stuff, is the same from the beginning…

what else to try?

Only thing I can think of is starting MEC from the command line

you can do this by going into the system folder,

cd /usbdrive/System/MEC
#or if using sdcard 
cd /sdcard/System/MEC

then typing

./mec-app pushkontrol.json 

then looking to see if there are any errors coming up

---

(*) I realised as I took at look at the b2 , that we don’t need udev rules on the Organelle since its running as root

[thetechnobear]

actually can you try the following

cd /usbdrive/System/MEC
#or if using sdcard 
cd /sdcard/System/MEC

then typing

ldd ./mec-app 
ldd /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2

and post the results… I wonder if its not hardware, but your missing the graphics lib?!

if you are, then its going to take me a while to sort that out, as it means I need to determine all its dependancies, and release that as a package - and thats pretty time consuming

[HarmonyUnited]

@technobear Thanks so much Mark! Whatever you did with the beta 2 fixed the push 2 communication issue. Really having tons of FUN playing with ORAC 2.0. I sleek and enjoyable upgrade to the already flexible and wonderful ORAC.

A few questions which may also be requests:

1. Is there a way to UNLEARN mod assignments on the fly? I accidentally linked it to tempo and it made my patch all kinds of screwy. Even if i initialize the mod slot then re insert the LFO it will still be linked. Un-learning would be super helpful.

2. Is there a way to make an LFO sync to a multiples/fractions of the BPM? That would be really helpful too.

3. Is there any way to bring back the more flexable routing assignments while keeping the P1/P2 (which are brilliant btw). Right now we have what used to look like 1x10 and what is almost the 3x3+1. It would be cool to have the 4x2 and the 2x4 styles too. I am not a PD coder kind of person so making those happen for myself is kind of beyond my scope right now. A flexable option would be nice and helpful. but not at the top of my list for additions to ORAC.

4. Overloop, nori sampler etc are not recording new samples… it appears that they are recording, there is input level but there is no playback of what looks like a recording. The pre-loaded samples play back just fine. I also tried the regular patch Overloop on the organelle to test my input/output setup and it worked fine Ideas?

5. (not necessarily an ORAC os issue but… )Is there a definitive list of orac modules out there? I know you’ve provided a ton but is there a place where any extra ones would be collected?

Thanks!

[HarmonyUnited]

RE #4: just realized in the router module i have to increase the input gain of the chain for the audio to reach the module… so ignore that point please

[HarmonyUnited]

Last one for now:

Is there a way to change what patch opens upon ORAC launch?

Cheers

[greaterthanzero]

@HarmonyUnited

Is there a way to change what patch opens upon ORAC launch?

That’s addressed in the video.
“Save” menu item, just past midi learn and mod learn.

[thetechnobear]

1. set mod to zero ( use beta 2, beta 1 had a bug in this area)

2. write a modulator LFO that is clock sync’d

3. sure, but Im not planning on doing so for now, as they loose the spacial keyboard mapping that I like
   … but as I showed on the video this is pretty simple PD stuff to do, is just reconnecting the wires mainly.

4. you have solved

5. Ive not been tracking this…

one possibility is… the guys behind Patchstorage.com have asked me if I’d like Orac to be put in it own category (as its now cross-platform ), so this would make things easier to find.

[thetechnobear]

@HarmonyUnited

@technobear Thanks so much Mark! Whatever you did with the beta 2 fixed the push 2 communication issue. Really having tons of FUN playing with ORAC 2.0. I sleek and enjoyable upgrade to the already flexible and wonderful ORAC.

so push 2 is now working ok?
cool… at least it means everything is complete…
though Im unsure what has changed !?

[TheDeadFarmer]

First - really enjoying the new interface and features. Incredibly well thought out and seems really flexible while also being user friendly. Also thanks as always for the detailed and very clear demo videos.

I (like some others) am having a hard time “unlearning” modulation. Put mod learn “on” and took “amount” to zero (I’m guessing this is what you mean when you say bring “modulation value” to zero, but pls correct me if this is incorrect )
(I also tried doing the same with other prams to no avail)
-----To clarify, taking “amount” to 0 stops the modulation of course, but then after unchecking “mod learn” if I take the “amount” back up it still creates modulation in the original learned destination.

@thetechnobear

using the keyboard is just a shortcut thru the pages, so you can just press the last key on the keyboard, and you will get all the way to the end, so its only a couple of clicks at worst to get to main ctrl

This in beta1 was for serial only you mentioned in demo video - in beta 2 seems to have disappeared altogether… I may be missing something simple, if so apologies for taking up the time if I am. One suggestion on this for future – would it be possible to use “aux+key” combo while in the S1 module to achieve these shortcuts, and this way still allow the keyboard to be usable for whatever module it’s mapped to?

[HarmonyUnited]

@technobear

Yes, the push 2 is now working properly. Thank you so much for your help…

I will also look into trying to figure out how to write an LFO module… This is all new to me. I’m also just going to stick to the routing set up that you have… I agree that the spacial arrangement of the keys is very helpful for getting around quickly and knowing where I am.

Are there any resources other than the @wannop post about migrating older orac 1.0 user modules to orac 2.0?

I want to convert the u-muchord module… one of my favorites.

Thanks for y’all’s patience with my pure data coding newbi-ness.

Best, E

[thetechnobear]

@TheDeadFarmer
mod unlearn , did you try with beta 2? its been improved on that.
there are two ways to unlearn.
a) remove the module that is being modulated (not the modulator)
b) mod learn, then move the parameter you want to unlearn, then set the modulated value to zero
this is easiest to do with a macro, as you can see its at zero.
with an lfo, you have to mess with the the offset to make sure it hits zero, and stays there!
(if your just setting an lfo amount to zero, and not offset the the actual modulation amount is not zero!)

shortcut - should still be working
are you sure you haven’t set mainctrl dest to something other than 0?
(it will only work on zero, as otherwise they keyboard is not going to the active module and so hence router)
this has not changed in beta 2.

@TheDeadFarmer

would it be possible to use “aux+key” combo while in the S1 module to achieve these shortcuts, and this way still allow the keyboard to be usable for whatever module it’s mapped to?

sorry i dont understand what you means…
if your in s1, why do you need to press aux? the keys only function in the router module is to switch pages.

if your saying, can I do aux+key to take you to that page from any other module, the short answer is no, not at the moment…
some modules might already ready be using this key combo for their own special purpose - so to use this as a new shortcut, would mean going thru and seeing if this impact other modules , and then ‘taking it away from module designers’
im reluctant to do this, as the the organelle has so few UI gestures, removing a possiblity from a module is a serious decision.

it also prevents modules being allow to do things when the aux key is initially pressed, since you dont know if the shortcut is going to be used, until the aux key is released!

@HarmonyUnited

Are there any resources other than the @wannop post about migrating older orac 1.0 user modules to orac 2.0?

not yet, the best way is to look at the new modules, there not alot that has changed, and its reasonably obvious…
I’ll start looking at this more, once this beta are out of the way.

[HarmonyUnited]

@technobear

Thanks Mark. You dedication, guidance and communication is so appreciated.

I tried comparing a v1 and v2 module.pd file and trimming out what differences I saw. No luck yet… but I’ll take a deeper dive later. Any quick tips? Anything other than module.pd to modify?

Also, I desire to latch notes of the nori sampler to create morphing polyrhythmic landscapes. I didn’t find any sequencers or utilities that will simply latch notes like a sustain pedal would. Any solutions?

Eric

[thetechnobear]

@HarmonyUnited

I tried comparing a v1 and v2 module.pd file and trimming out what differences I saw. No luck yet… but I’ll take a deeper dive later. Any quick tips? Anything other than module.pd to modify?

main thing as mentioned in previous post is to remove the KontrolModule object
(this is now in the auto generated module code)

other than that, you can add CtrlIn-$1 , but should work without that, but you’ll get warnings/errors when loading the module.

the only other difference is now notesIn/Out has 3 elements in the list , so 0 0 0
= note, vel, voice.

note-in - voice is required for proper mpe handling (see other modules where i do this), otherwise you can ignore. you can use [split] to take the 2 params as before if you wish… that’s what i do in some patches (eg… seq2 ?)
notes-out - voice unless you have a specific purpose you should set to 0

[TheDeadFarmer]

Unlearn works great w macros exactly how you explained. This is quite like Midi Learn and fairly intuitive.

Still having no luck unlearning LFOs - I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “the modulated value” here but I’m gathering it’s some relationship between the Amount and the Offset that I’m not grasping yet.

The shortcuts are still not working, I never had beta 1… just getting started here
I did at one point change the mainctrl dest, but never saved and am starting from the demo every time… double checked and it’s set to 0 - very strange if no one else is experiencing this… could it be a hardware issue?

The aux key thing - realize yes that we want the aux key to be a function for the modules… I think I realize though why it’s not possible to do what I was thinking.

[thetechnobear]

@TheDeadFarmer

Still having no luck unlearning LFOs - I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “the modulated value” here but I’m gathering it’s some relationship between the Amount and the Offset that I’m not grasping yet.

yeah, so
modulation amount = (LFO * amount) + offset

so the way to unlearn an lfo is

a) keep rate > 0 (as we need values to be sent)
b) turn lfo amount to zero
c) turn lfo offset to zero
d) mod learn - on
e) turn parameter to unlearn
d) mod learn - off

@TheDeadFarmer

The shortcuts are still not working, I never had beta 1… just getting started here
I did at one point change the mainctrl dest, but never saved and am starting from the demo every time… double checked and it’s set to 0 - very strange if no one else is experiencing this… could it be a hardware issue?

sorry my mistake , I broke it in Beta 2 whilst improving the active module handing for the audio modules.
it’ll be fixed in beta 3.

[thetechnobear]

finding modules etc

currently there are Orac modules on patchstorage.com under Organelle.
I think most of these (except the C&G ones) have not been updated to 2.0 yet.

so the guys running patchstorage.com have suggested that perhaps Patchstorage should have an Orac category so that all things orac can be found easily and because Orac modules and the remote clients are cross-platform.

What do others think?

note: my only slight issue with this is ,
“Orac for Organelle” will not then be findable if you look at Organelle patches…
so perhaps the non-cross platform part should be in the platform part
e.g.
Orac for Organelle (Organelle)
Orac for Nebulae (Nebulae)
Orac for rPI (Orac ) (as no general rPI category)
Orac Remote Osc Clients (Orac ) ( useable by Orac users on all platforms)
Orac modules (Orac) ( useable by Orac users on all platforms)

another option is to just use #orac on patchstorage, to search
( I think most will be putting orac as a tag)

(but that doesn’t solve the issue that modules and osc remote clients are being put under ‘organelle’ as theres is no logical place to put them )

what do you think?

beta phase

ok, so beta 1 didn’t have that many bugs reported, and for beta 2, I currently only have 1 bug so far - so mainly betas have been about tweaks to features due to feedback (which has been useful)

but overall its looking like Orac is stable,
so my plan is to wait a few days is to see if I get any more bug reports, and implement the tweaks Im planning.

if no big bugs (which seem unlikely now) , then its likely Beta 3 will be the final beta before release, and as such I will limit the changes I make between beta 3 and the release to essentials/critical bugs.
(this is standard development practice to ensure you don’t break anything for final release )

what this mean is, the next few days is the best time for you to make suggestions, or report bugs - so that i can get them into beta 3, and so release.

note: Im not planning on implementing new modules or major feature changes during this beta - they will come either for 2.x or possibly I will release modules separately, that I will then roll into a 2.x update.
when 2.x will be done, will depend on urgency of changes (e.g. a bug being found) and my time

so please, if you use orac, try to spare a small bit of time in next few days, to check things are working as you expect.