Organelle M - no sound when booting with more than one MIDI device connected

Hi everybody,

has anybody experienced a similar problem?
I have an electron Overhub USB hub connected to the Organelle M (OS 3.2) and four Sensel Morphs connected to the USB hub. The usb hub is using a power supply (shouldn’t be necessary because the Morphs have an internal battery - but still).
The Organelle is powered by the external power supply.
When first connecting the hub and then switching on the Organelle then no module seems to produce any sounds - neither via internal speaker, nor line out nor headphone out. The level indicators are moving, so the Pd parts seems to do something, just no sound.
If I disconnect the hub and stop and start the Organelle then sound works.
If I then connect the hub I can see one of the four Morphs. (Even though all four are connected I also only see one single “Sensel Morph 1” entry in the MIDI settings. Any of the four Morphs can be that “Morph 1” - if I switch off all other three before connecting to the Organelle. So technically all four work with Organelle, it simply cannot detect more than one at a time.
C̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶O̶r̶g̶a̶n̶e̶l̶l̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶U̶S̶B̶ ̶h̶u̶b̶s̶?̶
Any chance to connect four midi controllers and have them all connected at the same time? (I have my four Morphs configured to send MIDI events in different octaves, getting MIDI only from one would mean I would have only 1/4th the octave range - not good).
Any idea what I could do?

Edit: If I only connect the hub or even connect only one Morph to the hub the no-sound problem doesn’t occur. Only with two or more Morphs.

the organelle-m generally copes with usb hubs - ive got a powered one connected quite a bit of the time (to ensure devices are getting enough power).

I think you’ll need to check the Linux logs , and also the usb device tree… see whats going on.

id go step by step, connect one… check logs, check two etc.
it be useful to know how many it requires to fail.
you mention 2 in title, but then say you tried 4?

its odd that you don’t get sound, again the logs should tell you if something has happened - perhaps something is overload alsa, and the causing it to fail?

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Ok, will take the Organelle, the hub and two Morphs with me to the family visit. Some debugging prime time will most certainly be found somewhere in between :slight_smile:

Edit: Regarding 2 vs 4: Have first tried the “target setup” with four Morphs. As this didn’t work I then moved to no Morph (to ensure that the hub isn’t the problem) and after that worked connected one Morph (still worked) and then two (didn’t work anymore). I’m pretty sure three also wouldn’t work.

Edit: Final two tests for today: Connected two Morphs directly to the two host ports of the Organelle (thus without the hub) - also no sound. Then replaced one of the Morphs with a Linnstrument - no sound either. It only works if not more than one midi controller is connected at startup.

k, so I did a test 2 axoloti (which act as midi devices) and 1 pyramid attached to usb hub.

IF I plug in I hub (w /devices) after the organelle is powered and booted up it all works fine. (even all bus powered :slight_smile: )
however, IF I plug in before powering on, then I dont get sound.

the reason is because alsa is giving the audio card a different id,
so the pure data config I believe is then pointing to the wrong device.

I believe all that is necessary in this case is to use pd-opt.txt to ensure it picks up the correct device.

(prior to this, you can test by launching in gui mode and just select the audio device in the gui)

note: this behaviour only seems to exist when you have > 1 midi device on the hub, which is why I’ve not noticed it… as usually I have other stuff plugged into the usb hub.

hope that’s helps and not sure Im going to get more time to look at this over next few days.
good luck, hope it works out.

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Ok, will look into the pd-opt.txt thing!
Still had a look at /var/log/kern.log, lsmod and usb-devices. Didn’t find anything odd, there is a snd_usb_audio driver loaded (and used) though, so even though I couldn’t identify any usb audio device in the list of usb-devices the audio out might still be usb somehow.
Thanks for your help, the pd-opt might have been the hint I needed, will look into that in the next days!

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yeah, as far as i could see last night… there was no major underlying problem (*)

its just that linux loves to use ‘index’ for referring to things,
this was ok, when it you have a static setup, and the user is familiar with its config files,
but these days with plug n’ play and usb its more problematic.

whats happening here, is things are given a different index if plugged in at the outset or later plugged in, down to the order things get initialised at startup

iirc from last night, whats happening is at boot with usb hub inserted, its ending up reverting to the built-in codec, which is not what we want.

the way to solve, is detailed here

@oweno what we should probably do is look into using -audioaddindev -audioaddoutdev (pure data) , which allows you to use device name rather than index.
(note: name will be different on organelle-1 and organelle-m)

(*) @NothanUmber
one thing, I thought you said the sensel didn’t work if you plugged in after startup … the above would not explain this… and would be something different, as I had no issues with multiple usb devices if plugged in later.

note: if you are trying to configure multiple midi devices at once, they this is not supported thru the organelle menu, but I have detailed here

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Thanks a lot for all the infos!
Am currently in the train, have the Organelle with me.
Nice christmas days to you and Lydia!

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